navicular

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[stormy]

what are early signs that a horse is becoming navicular? Can you do anything to prolong it's onset and keep said horse comfortable?

[QueenFluffBunny]

Change in foot landing from heel first to toe first.

Most people don't like hearing this, but make sure YOU are educated well enough to know if your farrier is doing a good job. Way too many "navicular" horses are the result of bad farrier work such as ill fitting shoes, heals not addressed correctly, lack of caudal support, etc.

Have you had radiographs to check for changes in the navicular bone?

[morganhorse86]

Heel pain (simple hoof testers will tell you). If there is heel pain, I second the rads. It's the simplest way to find out, and if they're normal, then you have a baseline in case there are changes next time.

Most people don't like hearing this, but make sure YOU are educated well enough to know if your farrier is doing a good job. Way too many "navicular" horses are the result of bad farrier work such as ill fitting shoes, heals not addressed correctly, lack of caudal support, etc.

Amen. It took me almost 20 years to find mine. He explains everything to me, and doesn't freak out when I bring back vet instructions. He actually asked for my vet's # when he didn't understand what she was asking for, and they worked it out together. Whoda thunk?

As for "fixing" it, certain shoeing can help out with the pain, but my understanding is once it gets rolling, you won't stop it. How fast it progresses depends on the horse.

[stormy]

thanks I know I can't fix it but I'd like to have ways to keep her comfy if tests come back as being navicular I am working on setting things up.

[6 and counting]

Im going through this right now ...waiting to hear back from the vet on what we are going to do, Ive had her at perdue for the x- rays but im going to stick with a local vet to take care of the surgery.
good luck to you.

[Sabella Rush]

What kind of surgery are you planning to do for navicular? Sabella Rush

[Theresa]

What kind of surgery are you planning to do for navicular? Sabella Rush

I'm guessing a neurectomy. 

6 and Counting - Who does them locally?  Anyone I know that went that route went to Purdue.

I hope its not the Assaloosa, not that I would wish it on any of them.  I just know how much work you have put into him. 

[6 and counting]

Hi Theresa no (lol) not the assaloosa its my paint mare ,I went Monday to meet with Dr. Morandi he is in orland park off of wolf rd. I will find out more on what route we are going to take by today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we are just going to DE- Nerve her. I rode with you at the state park 1 time and I was on her she is the bay.wish her luck! ill keep you informed. Suzi

[Theresa]

Hi Theresa no (lol) not the assaloosa its my paint mare ,I went Monday to meet with Dr. Morandi he is in orland park off of wolf rd. I will find out more on what route we are going to take by today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we are just going to DE- Nerve her. I rode with you at the state park 1 time and I was on her she is the bay.wish her luck! ill keep you informed. Suzi

[Theresa]

Hi Theresa no (lol) not the assaloosa its my paint mare ,I went Monday to meet with Dr. Morandi he is in orland park off of wolf rd. I will find out more on what route we are going to take by today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we are just going to DE- Nerve her. I rode with you at the state park 1 time and I was on her she is the bay.wish her luck! ill keep you informed. Suzi

I know Doc Morandi well   He did Cherokee's crypt surgery 11 years ago. 

From what I have heard, Purdue is quite a bit cheaper, and they do a really good job.  I have no personal experience myself though.  Sorry to hear about your mare - Hope all goes well.

[Grinch]

Imma seen a patern here.
Queenfluffbunny, trying to make folks believe shes a lamness/shoeing/trimming expert. 

[QueenFluffBunny]

Really?  I've replied to two threads recently.

LMAO...too funny

[PT]

Yea Grinch is a sexy green beast ain't he??

[RickB.]

Lets understand something here.  A neurectomy does nothing to stop either the cause or the continued degeneration involved in Navicular Disease.  All it does is sever the pain pathway so the horse no longer knows just how much damage is being done and how much it hurts.  And, there are a lot of drawbacks to having a neurectomy performed.  Adnesions, neuromas, increased risk of un-diagnosed injury and infection in the caudal portion fo the hoof, loss of proprioception, increased risk of injury to horse and rider, etc.

And, before the PDN is undertaken, it must be determined whether or not the horse is suffering from Navicular disease or Navicular Syndrome.(aka:  "caudal heel pain syndrome").  NS is not necessarily or even usually, a reason to perform a PDN.  At least not until other avenues of palliation and remediation are exhausted.

[middleageddebutante]

I would definately read RickB's words and take his advice.  And then re-read them two more times. 

If you are doing any serious trail riding I would absolutely NOT nerve a horse. 

[stormy]

I have no plans on nerving her I will try new shoeing techniques maybe inject her coffin joint and I'm looking into isoxoprin things I've seen used for navicular any input on those techniques would be great

[horsedreamin]

Depending on the age of the horse, your budget, and obviously, your vet's opinion, there is Tilden.  Do a little research on it.  I chose to not do it with my horse for many reasons. 

If done systemically, it costs approx. $1,000 per dose.  If done locally, and only some vets will try this, it costs approx. $250 per dose.  No way of knowing how many treatments. 

The way it has been explained to me is similar to osteoporsis in that the structures needed to keep the bone strong are not reproducing as fast as the structures that destroy the bone; hence, the bone is weakened.  The tilden helps stop/reverse the process.  It's been a while, so that's the real basic version.  Don't know all the technical terms.  I don't honestly know how helpful it is overall. 

Heard a lecture given by one of the vets from the Wisconsin Equine Clinic.  He was absolutely fascinating on the subject.  He had been involved in the Tilden study.  The best, most difinitive way to diagnose is with an MRI.  Also, only some horses should be considered for nerving -- not all.  Depends on exactly what the test results show. 

Mine also responded well to eggbar shoes.  Anything to support the heal.  Isoxsuprine also worked for a while, but, according to my vet, it is good to have them on it for a while and then take a break, then put them back on. 

Good luck.  It's heartbreaking.  Oh, and by no means am I an expert, just hoping some of my experience can help you, but I might add, FWIW, it's been my personal experience that QFB generally does know what she's talking about. 

Linda

[stormy]

thanks tilden was used for a horse in my barn recently w/ neck arthritis we'll see how it works...that much money for something unproven seems like a waste but we'll see I know something needs to be done to help her out.

[RickB.]

I have no plans on nerving her I will try new shoeing techniques maybe inject her coffin joint

Why would you inject the coffin joint Shoeing techniques will only be effective after you determine whether it is ND or NS, how advanced the pathology has become, and whether or not the trimming protocol is correct.  Taking a "shotgun" approach to treatment is an inefficient wat to go about dealing with the problem.  Also, coffin joint injections carry with them their own potential problems.  Besides, what real purpose, other than palliating the pain temporarily, do DIPJ injections for ND/NS, have?

and I'm looking into isoxoprin things I've seen used for navicular any input on those techniques would be great

What effect do you think isoxsuprine will have?  Again, it will do nothing to remediate the cause of the problem.

[6 and counting]

Hello Rickb what suggestions do you have Im listening?
due to the storm my mare isnt going in this week, Im open to suggestions?